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Why BCRA Failed—And How It Could End Trump

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swampwiz0
Guest

The problem with ObamaRomneyHeritageCare is that uses socialism with redistribution from non-lower income healthy folks in its plan to the sick folks. This is very limited as a lot of healthy folks don’t buy coverage, and folks getting coverage via an employer don’t participate. The socialism should be as broadly funded as possible. ORHC also does socialism in the more conventional sense in that lower-income folks get subsidies, and a lot of white patriots are in this lower-income group, so it should not be an issue with the caucasocentric community.

Budd Smith
Guest

Ann Coulter should be hired to write the new health care plan. She’s the only one advocating a workable affordable plan.

Ken31
Guest

Transcripts or STFU. kthx,

Marathon-Youth
Guest
Healthcare is a basic right that begins in the womb and ends when we die. It is more basic than housing or education and ranks along with food and survival. An enlightened society provides the best medical care to everyone, especially the common folk America is the most innovative society in the field of medicine and surgery. We have invested hundreds of billions of dollars in the last several decades and produced cutting edge technology in a number of fields that deal with health. but Only the elite have access to this. This elite includes our elected officials. the rest… Read more »
WR_the_realist
Guest

Food isn’t a “right”. Nowhere is a right to food in the constitution. If you are an adult who needs food — grow it, hunt it, or pay for it.

Krafty Wurker
Guest

Croatian genius John Kasich was on MSNBC this morning talking up his Medicaid for all program which is guaranteed to bankrupt the USA, or drive taxes to astronomical levels by putting everyone on Medicaid. Kasich intends to pay for his Medicaid for all program by cutting current and future social security payments. Kasich’s slogan must be, rob from the productive who have paid into the system, and give to the unproductive who haven’t paid in.

One Man's Chorus
Guest
National healthcare, whether it’s universal care or universal health insurance, faces an insurmountable problem. The problem is how to finance it. This is an issue that all countries which have adopted some form of socialized medicine have faced (yes, all countries, including Germany and Japan – this is not an IQ issue, it’s a supply and demand issue). If the government passed a national healthcare bill, all 300 million citizens would become eligible for care, so you’d increase demand for health care. But what about the supply of health care? Would there suddenly be more hospitals, doctors, nurses, MRIs, CAT… Read more »
unpaidpundit
Guest

Every country that has national health care spends less in terms of GDP than the U.S., and gets better results in terms of life expectancy, etc. A nationalized system is certainly the best way to control costs. The biggest question is whether a public system reduces innovation.

NotYouNotSure
Guest

You will also find that the national health system is also related to demographics of the land. If you have a vast amount of inferior people in your land expect to have a system that is closer to Nigeria than it is to Japan, regardless of how public or privately run the health care is. If America becomes ever more third world it does not matter what magic dirt laws they try pass, services like health care will degrade with time.

One Man's Chorus
Guest

…than it is to Japan

Why do you guys always turn this into an IQ issue? It’s a supply and demand issue. All countries with national health care wind up cutting their budgets. It has nothing to do with IQ.

Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest

Because idiots can’t run a public health care scheme adequately.

One Man's Chorus
Guest

Why do you assume that they spend less on health care because the cost of providing it is lowered by national health insurance, rather than assuming that they just control their budgets? They could spend less on health care by defunding health care programs, but for some reason you think they spend less because the cost of health care is made lower by national health insurance.

How does nationalizing health insurance reduce the cost of sending someone to medical school, or the cost of MRI machines?

unpaidpundit
Guest

National health care reduces costs because countries set the price they are willing to pay for drugs, and devices like MRI machines. The national health service says, “This is what we are willing to pay for your pharmaceutical, take it or leave it.” Usually, the country offers a reasonable amount, and the provider is willing to take it. That is why prescription drugs are so much less expensive in Canada than in the U.S., for instance.

One Man's Chorus
Guest

Price ceilings lead to shortages. There are prescription drug shortages in Canada:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/02/21/canada-drug-shortage_n_1292280.html

Brett Stevens
Guest

The best way to control costs is zero regulation so that new actors enter the market and displace the entrenched ones.

unpaidpundit
Guest

When a corporation has a patent on a new drug or device, that company has a monopoly on their new product. They can charge whatever they want for it under a system of private insurance. If the government is the insurer, the government has more negotiating power.

Brett Stevens
Guest

Like all entitlements programs, it quickly enacts wealth transfer from the productive to the unproductive, with the former being finite and the latter infinite in demand.

One Man's Chorus
Guest

I disagree that the alt-lite has no essence. The alt-lite are grassroots conservatives who figured out that conservatism has no essence.

Dave Overman
Guest

RIght on, Spencer. McConnell is no leader. Never has been. Moran is an embarrassment to my state. That’s the core problem: the lack of leadership among the GOP and the growing gaps between conservatives and ‘moderate’ Repubs, along with the wild-card Libertarians, isn’t going to heal itself anytime soon. It needs a swift kick in the ass. Time to start lobbying hard or run for those seats when they are up for election.

unpaidpundit
Guest

Spencer didn’t say he supports Ayn Randian, libertarian Social Darwinism, just that he understands their position.

Dave Overman
Guest

No, he says he “respects” her perspective at ‘6:45’. Respect transcends ‘understanding’, it implies admiration or at the least, passive agreement.

Brett Stevens
Guest

If people bought private insurance for catastrophic medical care, it would be much cheaper and take care of this problem.

Dave Overman
Guest

Good idea. But is the insurance is too expensive, as Obamacare is, then it would only serve the interests of wealthy whites, not poor or middle-class whites.

Riopel
Guest

Americans overwhelmingly support the wall, immigration crackdowns, and bans on Muslim migration, yet all these faggot cuckservatives care about is muh repeal. They’re more out-of-touch with their base than the democrats are with theirs.

Trump needs to stop shut the fucks down and start building an alternative to the GOP.

Donald Jackson
Guest
Not sure if you were just baiting for views with this one, Spencer, but this was honestly the best thing that could’ve happened. Trump’s victory had nothing to do with repealing Obamacare and everything to do with trade/jobs and immigration. The failure of BCRA was honestly a gift; it allows Trump to wipe his hands of it and blame the LOLBertarian House GOP and pivot to the issues that actually put him in office. Wasting anymore political capital on healthcare would be retarded. Healthcare doesn’t allow us to internalize the benefits to whites like trade or immigration does, whether symbolically… Read more »
Brett Stevens
Guest

The failure of BCRA was honestly a gift; it allows Trump to wipe his
hands of it and blame the LOLBertarian House GOP and pivot to the issues
that actually put him in office.

I agree. He boxed them in: they could either approve a hack of a bill, or own the failure of Obamacare, leaving Trump free to advance his quasi-nationalistic agenda.

Ajudeo
Guest

https://twitter.com/JGreenblattADL/status/887409154931011592

There are Forced By-Law Separate Areas at the Western Wall for Jewish Women and Men to Pray…….

The Anti-Feminist Ultra Orthodox CONTROL the Western Wall Activities……

IMMIGRANTS?!?!

The Jewish Ethno-State is Pro-Immigrant??

Ha!!

JOKE OF THE CENTURY……

Yeah, if you have a Jewish Mother…….

WOW…….

And what the F is a ‘White Supremacist’??

White People who want to Survive and not see Historically White Nations become White Minority??

So Nazi……

P.S. (I don’t hate Camille Paglia)…….

Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest

These Alt Lite ZioCucks are getting lamer by the minute. “Muh Holocaust Survivor…Take me off the Hate List”.

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/887523126485147650

Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest
Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest
Bob
Guest

Glad it failed – glad it is radicalizing many Americans, glad that the rage from this will lead to more chances for us, glad glad glad…

Strac5
Guest

Weak argument, put together to justify an already-decided pro-socialized medicine position. If Trump is a team player on GOP issues, Republicans aren’t going to be antagonized over these issues and, more importantly, will have no pretext to attack Trump.

Ajudeo
Guest

https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/887468961436233729

But, they DO remain America First…….

Pro-Secure the Border…..

Pro-Immigration Control…….

Anti-Globalist………

Anti-Neocon……

Anti-Middle East Warmongering……

Anti-White Genocide…….

Anti-BLM……

Ajudeo
Guest

God/Something help us all…….

https://twitter.com/ADL_National/status/861958490474110976

A Zionist/Jewish Supremacist Organization that implicitly supports Ethnic Cleansing Palestine of Arabs……

A Zionist/Jewish Supremacist Organization which has for DECADES Whitewashed COUNTLESS War Crimes against Palestinian Arabs by the Jewish Ethno-State……

A Zionist/Jewish Supremacist Organization which even defended the Jewish Ethno-State when the Zio-Nazis MURDERED the White American Rachel Corrie in Cold Blood……..

#CreateAHateFreeWorld

They LOVE the Warmonger McCain…….

They have ABSORBED the Anti-Trump Neocon Warmongers…….

But, Pro-Peace Mike Cernovich is on their Hate List……..

Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reality is STRANGER than Fiction…….

FACT……

Ajudeo
Guest
Interesting Phenomenon: The ADL is now attacking Mike Cernovich…… Why? Makes ZERO Sense on the Surface……. Mike Cernovich retweets Jews all the time…….. Mike Cernovich obviously isn’t Alt-Right……. What’s the ADL Strategy?? The ADL is 100% Zionist Fanatic……. The ADL is Democrat……. The Anti-Trump Neocons have now moved to the Democrat Party……. Mike Cernovich is Pro-Assad…….or simply Anti-Middle East Warmongering…… Mike Cernovich is Anti-Neocon……. Israel has rejected the Trump-Russia-Syrian Ceasefire…… The Neocons agree with Israel against Trump/America……. Mike Cernovich is Anti-Trump/Russia Conspiracy Collusion Hysteria…….. The Neocons are Pro-Trump/Russia Conspiracy Collusion Hysteria…… The Alt-Lite contains significant Counter-Semitic Elements…… Mike Cernovich is… Read more »
Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest

What’s funny is the Alt Lite is whining about being lumped in with us, the Alt Right. Even the ADL is calling Cerno and his crowd with the derisive moniker of the Alt Lite, now they can’t shake it.

We just laugh at the ADL, Weird Mike goes on some strange rant about ADL Jews trying to kill his family.

Ajudeo
Guest

Mike Cernovich is Doxxed……

Are you??

Being Doxxed with a Wife and Child…….would you want to be put on an ADL Hate List??

I doesn’t really bother me that Mike Cernovich Counter Signals the Alt-Right…….

I understand why he does it…….

The Jewish Question is a Minefield……..

Do I want my Left Arm to be my Right Arm??

NO…….

I want a Left Arm and a Right Arm…….

Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest

How is Mike Cernovich doxxed by the ADL?

He doxxed himself. He’s done Periscopes frequently from his house and at a park in Orange County where he lives.

Dave Overman
Guest

Reminds me of one of Glenn Beck’s paranoid rants from the hospital bed after he had ass surgery.

Strac5
Guest

It is a long-standing strategy of leftists to target the more moderate elements of the opposition, apparently to force them to move further left. That destroys the ideological space they occupied. The result is that there is no socially acceptable alternative to cucking-type factions. Of course, that strategy used to work. Today, they are digging their own grave faster.

Dave Overman
Guest

Moron

Brett Stevens
Guest

The ADL makes its money from donations send by scared Jewish grandmothers in Florida.

The more Nazis it produces, the better, especially if they are successful Nazis not basement-dwellers with shotguns and blogspots.

Ajudeo
Guest

These Questions about Health Care would be much easier solved……

…..in a Country/Nation-State which was over 95% White European…….

Tragic Comedy
Guest

He has nobody to blame but himself.

Krafty Wurker
Guest

comment image

Tragic Comedy
Guest

wat… Where’s the original?

Krafty Wurker
Guest

Ben Garrison sent that to me.

Charles Lufkin
Guest

Richard meant Medicaid,when he said Medicare.BIG difference between the programs.

Krafty Wurker
Guest

I’m sure he did. But, from what I’ve read on altright.com only a handful have a clue about the nature of the debate—even among the political professionals.

Krafty Wurker
Guest
Richard, Medicare is an old age health insurance program that you pay into all of your life, even after you have retired it’s taken out of your social security check. Your employer also contributes an equal amount, as you do during your working years to Medicare. You cannot use Medicare until you are 65 years old. There are many things that Medicare does not pay for… Medicaid is a welfare program. No one pays anything into Medicaid, and that’s the big problem. It’s funded by the taxpayer. The more people on Medicaid, the bigger the bill to the taxpayers. The… Read more »
Dave Overman
Guest

One can be denied for Medicaid, so it’s not ‘welfare’ for everyone.

Also, Medicare is not restricted to old age, people who are young and and on SSDI can qualify for, given they have at least 2 years of documented disability.

Krafty Wurker
Guest

Right, Social Security Disability is another big part of the problem. Too many people are ending up on “Disability”.

There are income criterion for collecting Medicaid, but, that doesn’t seem to be stopping too many from collecting Medicaid & Chip.

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest

Many elderly people in assisted living and nursing home facilities are on Medicaid. Either they didn’t have assets, spent their assets on care at the facility or transferred their assets before they entered.

Dave Overman
Guest

True, many disabled people in their 40s, 50s, and even younger live in nursing homes and have to live off Medicaid, as they are denied Medicare and simply cannot afford Obamacare (see my post above)

Krafty Wurker
Guest

It depends on the specific situation, and the resources and income of the individual.

Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest

If they do have assets but can’t afford assisted living or nursing home care, the state government will often get title to their house in exchange for providing elder care for the person. When the person dies, the state gets the house.

Krafty Wurker
Guest

What State or States are doing that?

Ris_Eruwaedhiel
Guest

That’s exactly right.

On another subject, just read online that Charlie Gard was reportedly granted US citizenship. So, come to the US for treatment, live longer, plow through the money that his parents raised and then go on the taxpayer. Lovely. Virtue-signalling by pathetic “conservatives” obsessed with “life.”

This sets a bad precedent. Some guy in Outer Mongolia can’t afford for kidney dialysis and neither the government nor a charity will pay for it, so he’ll die. Bring him over! Culture of Life!

Dave Overman
Guest

Which is disgusting to think that one’s ancestral home can be taken by the state…

Dave Overman
Guest
I have a family member that acquired Melanoma at age 39. After a year of treatments he had to stop working, as the chemo produced so much fatigue and brain fog that he couldn’t do his job, or any job, any longer. He has been denied Medicaid repeatedly, as he apparently makes too much from his SSDI. It’s ridiculous, because he has been referred to the Obamacare website to purchase a policy, which the cheapest he can get is 600/month with a 10k deductible; something he clearly cannot afford. I do agree that the Federal definition of ‘disability’ is fairly… Read more »
Krafty Wurker
Guest

To get denied for Medicaid, you have to make more than 150% of you States poverty level. It’s possible that your relative has another income source besides SSDI?

Dave Overman
Guest

No, but he lives in KS, which is perpetually in financial crisis.

Hipster Racist
Guest
Regardless of your opinions about Obamacare or health care policy in general – the Tea Party opposition to Obamacare was the ultimate example of how pathetic American conservatism really is. The Tea Party really got its start in the opposition to the Wall Street bailouts of 2008 – a Bush administration program that was supported by the leadership of both parties. Within a year, the Tea Party was co-opted by the insurance industry to serve as unpaid, volunteer lobbyists for corporate welfare. You literally had working class Whites, many on government heath care themselves, protesting against government programs that may… Read more »
Johnny Fascismo
Guest

“where are the new “Trump populists” ready to take over Congress?”

Their whining about Catholics and Monarchists on the interwebz.

Hipster Racist
Guest

You’re just mad I pointed out you’ve never kissed a girl.

Johnny Fascismo
Guest

lol I’ve had a lot of girlfriends actually. Not that it’s any of your buisiness.

Ajudeo
Guest

That’s kinda Gay, Dude……

Honestly……

And I agree with you most of the time……

Zyzz
Guest

You’re going to need big money to organize an effective political lobby. Those lawyers are not cheap.

Crud Bonemeal
Guest

We can’t take part in electoral politics unless we have “muh donors”.

Hipster Racist
Guest
See above, a large number of small donations is already the new way it’s done in politics. Donations are capped, and a large war chest can only do so much. Jeb Bush had all the money in the world and it did him no good because just flooding the airwaves with TV commercials wasn’t enough to make him popular. So we are “muh donors.” It’s true that politics is downstream from culture, and right now only a Trump-level “civic nationalist” campaign would work – direct appeals to “whiteness” probably wouldn’t get very far. But we can take it a bit… Read more »
unpaidpundit
Guest

I actually think that appeals to whiteness would work. The problem is that the media would shut down such a message. No pro-white candidate would get covered by the media, and the media would refuse to sell air time to such a candidate.

Hipster Racist
Guest

We don’t need “the media” if by that you mean TV and newspapers. We have online. And you may be right, maybe appeals to whiteness will work, maybe it’s time to go the next step. Certainly, even the “civic nationalist” crowd has started to talk about anti-whiteness and “reverse racism” and the like.

Yehudah Finkelstein
Guest

The massive fundraising for SPLC vs Anglin shows we can raise money.

Tragic Comedy
Guest
I hate to say it, but I wager nothing will change. Trump has proven that White populism is a winning platform – but the people who have the influence and shekels to be politically relevant don’t necessarily want to win, certainly not on such a platform. When everyone who could fill such a role serves the same (((master))), there’s nobody to go to in search of someone to oppose that (((master))). The cuckservatives don’t want to win via White populism, and those are the only people even-vaguely in line with the views espoused by the ‘alt-right’ who the folks with… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
Mass two-way communication has made organizing and fundraising easier than ever. It was Howard Dean in 2004 that successfully raised a lot of money, enough to run a credible primary campaign, via lots of small donations. Obama’s successful campaign relied on Dean’s campaign manager’s tactics. It’s certainly not an easy task but it is well within the realm of possibility, and not nearly as difficult as it would have been 20 years ago. In fact I’d suggest a white populist campaign is all but inevitable, it will happen regardless. It’s the opposition that prevents it from taking hold and winning.… Read more »
Krafty Wurker
Guest

I think it’s really important that the fellows in their early 20’s to their early 40’s be involved and given responsibility in any campaign. I never got any responsibility, and neither did any of my friends, until we were in our early 40’s. We should have been running with things in our early 20’s when we had energy, and 16 hour days were nothing. We accomplished a lot, but, we could have accomplished more if we had been given responsibility when we were younger.

Strac5
Guest
Do you have any evidence for your claim about the Tea Party being co-opted by wealthy corporations? It’s facile and popular to attack the Tea Party, but the truth is they are a grassroots movement, they work hard, they have accomplished many things, and they know things about politics the alt-right does not because while you were reading about evolution, culture, and social stats, they were reading about the classical ideas that underlie our nation’s founding and our economic system. Maybe they know what they are talking about when it comes to free markets and the government’s proper role in… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
Yes, I do have evidence, in the form of mainstream press reports, specifically the WSJ. It was rather heavily covered at the time. The GOP bragged about how they were driving out the “birthers and truthers” and the rather pathetic spectacle of Tea Partiers showing up to shill for insurance companies was also heavily covered and commented up at the time. Of course that was almost ten years ago so if you want a link, you’ll have to look it up yourself. The Tea Party doesn’t even exist anymore. classical ideas that underlie our nation’s founding and our economic system.… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
The Tea Party was not co-opted. “Birthers and truthers” were never core to the movement. The Tea Party was always a limited government movement, and it has stayed that way. They did not “shill for insurance companies” or anyone else. Opposing more taxation is not a “bailout” or a “subsidy.” It’s freedom. The Tea Party has been very consistent with their free market beliefs. If America hasn’t been free for a century and if the GOP was founded as a party of corporate welfare, that doesn’t make these things right, and it certainly doesn’t justify implementing more of it. The… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
You’re just wrong. The first Tea Party was the Ron Paul Boston Tea Party for Liberty and 9/11 Truth way back in 2006. The Wall Street Journal quoted the GOP hacks like Tom Delay right after Obama’s election explaining how they were funding the groups that were not “birthers and truthers.” “advocating wealth redistribution programs” Worthless hacks like you and the rest of the “free marketeers” sat on their ass when trillions of dollars were given to the richest people in America – and now you have the nerve – the chutzpah – to whine about wealth redistribution? You will… Read more »
Brett Stevens
Guest

I am more shocked at the trillions we have dumped on our underclass.

Subsidies are always stupid, but doubly so when they are paid to inactive portions of the economy.

Hipster Racist
Guest
Brett, you can always be relied upon to distract from Jewish anti-whiteness and criminal activities and try to point in another direction – poor people, Negroes – hell just the other week you were comically telling us that it was the … IRISH … who are really responsible for all the anti-whiteness, not Jews! You aren’t “shocked” at the not-trillions we spend on the “underclass” – you find that a convenient distraction from the real issue, Jews. Just like you always want to talk about “egalitarianism” and other abstractions to protect Jewish power. You are pretty good at it, to… Read more »
Ken31
Guest

There is a definite Jew Vibe to Stevens’ website. Good post HR.

Strac5
Guest
Are you kidding me? A) The Tea Party kicked off in 2009 in response to the financial crisis and TARP bailouts. That is just a fact of history. Ron Paul people were merely one component. B) Protesting the bailouts became my second job. The financial crisis and TARP bailouts woke up the masses and made them active. You really don’t have any idea what you are talking about. Ron Paul people had some good ideas but also lived in a certain bubble and don’t understand other people or what they are doing. You are very arrogant and dismissive of others… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
It may be helpful for you to read my comment before responding, as I pointed out – and I quote myself – “[t]he Tea Party really got its start in the opposition to the Wall Street bailouts of 2008.” But of course there was prior art, specifically, the Ron Paul Boston Tea Party I mentioned. Post bailout the existing Tea Party movement surged. If the Tea Party had stuck to its roots in opposing the bailouts, and worked toward clawback of the bailouts – no, not just the red herring of TARP, the substance of the bailout, which was Maiden… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
Tea Party opposed welfare and bailouts for everybody, little guy and big banker alike, whether you were paying attention or not. I was. The Tea Party acted honorably and correctly during the financial crisis. No one is saying the Tea Party is perfect, and you have a great point about the Jewish mafia trying to scam, take advantage, and scapegoat during the financial crisis and the Tea Party not realizing it. Goldman Sachs deserves to rot in hell. Its CEO is a total vulture who was happy to help bring the system down as long as he could feed off… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
1. I’m not a libertarian. 2. The derivatives were worth zero because no one wanted to buy them. This is supply and demand. I thought you conservative Republicans believed in markets? “its purchases were economically irrelevant, and most of them occurred after the financial crisis had ended anyway.” 3. This is economic illiteracy. If they were irrelevant – why did they do it? That was the bailout – Wall Street was bankrupt because of 25 years of derivative fraud. Talk about an unprincipled exception! 4. You’re a typical conservative fraud – you whine about “markets” when poor people get some… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
Addressing some of your points: 2. The derivatives were not worth zero. They were never worth zero. If they were worth zero, they wouldn’t have recovered their full value. Just because you want them to be worth zero doesn’t mean that is the case. It’s crazy talk to say otherwise. 3. The Fed purchased derivatives (some, not all classes) because it was under political pressure to do something. This does not explain how all classes of derivatives recovered, or why the derivatives started to recover heavily even before the purchases, or even the purchase concept, were made. 4. As I… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
The derivatives were not worth zero. They were never worth zero. If they were worth zero, they wouldn’t have recovered their full value. When no one wants to buy a product, it’s worth zero. As is typical for conservative Republicans, you don’t even believe your own bullshit. They received their full value … because the government forced the taxpayers to buy them at face value. The bailouts did not help the rich. Do you even feel a tinge of guilt when you lie so shamelessly? 2008 where all the big banks refused to take the bailout money and then the… Read more »
Strac5
Guest

You are a bit psycho. Not in touch with reality.

Hipster Racist
Guest
Explain how forcing the taxpayers and anyone who generally uses the dollar to buy worthless, toxic CDOs – based on 25 years of fraud – does not “help the wealthy.” If the government forces you to buy my 20 year old F-150 for $250k – do I benefit from that? Of course. Do you benefit from that? Of course not. You have used all the same lies and talking points that the communist scum that benefited from the bailout have used for ten years – I’ve had the same lies told to my face from the scum at Goldman and… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
So you were in the room at that meeting, were you? You have a rabid temperament and a malicious disposition toward others, are very verbal, and are quick to pronounce doctrinal truths with no evidence and then denounce deniers with the most absurd ad hominems, guaranteed to shut down debate and speech. Much like a Jew. Now it turns out you were at the most important financial meeting of 2008. Hmmm…Are you sure you aren’t a mischling or quarterling? By the way, I once tried to defend Ken Lewis when the attacks on him started and was shut down by… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest

I got a lot of practice debating with lying Jews who defend financial fraud and use outright deception – as you have been doing in this thread – lots of practice.

Strac5
Guest

OK, Mr. Know-It-All, explain why there was a strong and uninterrupted V-shaped recovery if the derivatives were really “worthless” and not artificially devaluated.

Hipster Racist
Guest
“OK, Mr. Know-It-All, explain why there was a strong and uninterrupted V-shaped recovery if the derivatives were really “worthless” and not artificially devaluated.” Can you even READ? The Fed put them on their own books and just made up a price for them. That’s the exact opposite of a free market, that’s the exact opposite of “mark to market.” “Mark to model” was the entire problem. The government simply declared that they were worth “X” despite the fact the actual market didn’t reflect that price. And you call yourself an advocate of the free market? I mean, you don’t even… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
If the Fed just made up a price and the assets were really worth zero, how was the Fed able to sell the assets for a profit to the private sector? You have not answered that. We aren’t talking just a few assets here and there. Your implicit argument/worldview is that free markets work but also the private sector are idiots who don’t know the value of things. You also failed to answer why, if all derivative classes were worthless, the recovery was a strong, uninterrupted V-shape. What recovery in history was ever such an extreme V shape on such… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
“how was the Fed able to sell the assets for a profit to the private sector?” Do you even know how that works? Apparently not. The Fed created the credit *for* the so-called “private” sector and just put it in their account. That’s how it works, that is how the Fed system works. “You also failed to answer why, if all derivative classes were worthless, the recovery was a strong, uninterrupted V-shape.” I just explained that, literally, in the comment you are responding to. Actual free markets don’t have an “uninterrupted V-shape.” That’s basically how they caught Madoff. “that broad… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
1) You didn’t really answer my question. If the assets were really toxic, why would the private sector buy them back, regardless of how much credit was available? 2) Your response is nowhere close to answering why there was a V-shaped recovery. Maiden Lane was limited to Bear Stearns and AIG assets. Why did everything else (even stocks, bonds, and money markets!) recover, and why was it a V-shape? If you think the Fed’s credit-issuing was so great that it powered everything in the whole market (a likely story, show the math), then explain why we have had low inflation… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
1) I literally just explained that. The Fed gave them the money to “buy” them, which just artificially inflated their net worth. That was literally the *entire point* of Maiden Lane. 2) You are apparently a semi-professional propagandist – your deceptions are obvious to me, and ignored by everyone else. As for low inflation – why would there be high inflation? I’m not an Austrian and the artificial money wasn’t even put in the market, so of course there was no inflation. 3) LOL – it would be just as “factual” to say “mark to market is a private sector… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
Your argument is self-contradictory. You claimed the assets were toxic, meaning the banks would have to take write-downs to own them. So why would the private sector buy assets they would just have to take write-downs on? If it’s because private sector could also mark gains on them because their market values were inflated by artificial credit, then you are ipso facto admitting that mark to market is invalid. FYI, mark to market was a specific government regulation implemented right before the financial crisis. The private sector argued they should be free to mark to model. You are siding with… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
You are now just ignoring everything I write and blowing smoke. I literally explained – TWICE – the “question” in your second sentence. “FYI, mark to market was a specific government regulation implemented right before the financial crisis. The private sector argued they should be free to mark to model.” Because they had been “marking to model” – i.e., fraudulently valuing the toxic derivatives, which is what caused the entire problem in the first place. “Mark to model” is a government regulation as is all accounting. If their “model” was even CLOSE to what the market would have priced the… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
If no one is paying attention to this conversation, why do you answer? Is there something wrong with YOUR conscience? The fact is you did not answer the question and you still haven’t explained the V-shaped recovery. If the Fed money did not go into the general market, as you have claimed, then why did stocks, bonds, and other simpler assets suddenly skyrocket in price on a sustained tear? You have no explanation for that. Mark to market was put in effect by the government throughout the financial crisis against the wishes of the financial sector. They wanted to mark… Read more »
Daniel Harmon
Guest

He makes an argument and you reply with name calling. HR for the win.

Strac5
Guest

Nice try, Mr. Orwell, but I made the arguments while he ignored them and just repeated his unsubstantiated assertions then lost emotional control and went on a name-calling rant against a total stranger (“shameless liar,” “a disgusting communist,” “welfare queen,” a “leech,” and an “immoral freeloader”). He doesn’t know much, and he is unhinged, not capable of being reasoned with. People like him will take down whoever follows him.

Feel free to take up the argument if you wish.

Hipster Racist
Guest

You started this entire “argument” by responding to me, and spouting a torrent of lies. Ten year old lies, to an audience that likely has no idea what you’re doing.

There really is no “argument” here, I’m simply pointing out your lies.

eyeslevel
Guest
The 2008 bailout was the largest theft in history, no doubt. They did the same thing in Europe. If they had simply followed the law as it was, the greedy, reckless lenders would have been forced into bankruptcy, the greedy stockholders who foolishly trusted them would have lost their entire investment, every unfunded deferred comp for the management (this is often overlooked) would have evaporated, their (likely backdated) stock options would be worth zero and the depositors would have been made whole to the extent of their deposit insurance as mandated by law. And we could then rebuild without the… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
The insult to the injury is that the entire system could have been “bailed out” by a combination of NC finance and other regional companies. There were plenty of ways the system could have been saved. They chose the worst possible way to do it because they did NOT want the criminal syndicate in Manhattan to lose power to “fly over country” – it’s as simple as that. The “free market” that everyone blathers about could have worked just fine – if it was allowed to work. But as we can see, the “free market” is never allowed to work… Read more »
eyeslevel
Guest

Yes, the whole reason the financial crisis was handled the way it was was to benefit a handful of top management. These are the people who push for non-white immigrant scabs, enforce diversity policies, preferentially hire non-whites, basically create an anti-white plantation system. So they were rewarded by the system they supported.

Are these companies allowed to use taxpayer money to lobby Congress?

Copperhead
Guest

Hipster Racist: You are clearly well-versed and informed on financial and economic issues. I myself am a big reader of history, and thus have improved my geopolitical IQ, however, I am trying to learn more about economics. There are a ton of different economic beliefs floating around in these circles. Are there some materials you would recommend reading on the 2008 issues? Also, I am intrigued by the Marx usury issue. Could you expand on that?

Hipster Racist
Guest

@Copperhead:

I’ll explain it on my blog if you wish:

https://hipsterracist.wordpress.com

Marx was against the private ownership of physical capital but was apparently fine with the private ownership of financial capital – one supposes because he was a Jew, after all.

eyeslevel
Guest
Strac5
Guest

Congratulations, you found the one company that was famously saved by bailout from the financial crisis. One company, which will necessarily have executives, who are by definition rich, are not evidence of the notion that TARP generally helped the rich. It is also deeply ironic that your example is an insurance company, which employs mostly non-rich, non-Wall Street people, as an example of the bailout helping rich people.

eyeslevel
Guest
All the unfunded deferred comp in every company that would have had to go bankrupt would have gone POOF without the bailout. Plus all the stock options help by executives of those companies plus all the stock they held. Your saying not one company besides AIG had unfunded deferred comp or stock options or stock held by the executives of those companies? You didn’t say the bailouts did not GENERALLY help the rich you said: “The bailouts did not help the rich” So now you’re being deliberately obfuscatory. Of all the ways the bailout could have been done, it was… Read more »
Strac5
Guest
First of all, most of the financial companies weren’t bankrupt or about to go bankrupt, and most importantly, they did not believe they were about to go bankrupt. If they had believed it, they wouldn’t have resisted taking bailout money until they were threatened. Next, you are dangerously wrong to claim that they caused the financial crisis. Frankly, that claim is just evil. The government caused the financial crisis, period. Some in the industry deliberately assisted the government in doing so, and they deserve every bit of condemnation and wrath that can be mustered, but the industry itself did not… Read more »
eyeslevel
Guest

The debt was pushed out by private companies, they caused the crisis. Stating the obvious truth is evil?

You have an agenda to distract from this massive theft.

If they weren’t going to go bankrupt, they didn’t need a bailout.

Bottom line is multimillionaires received millions more than they would have without the bailout. They were looking at losing their unfunded deferred comp, their stock options and their jobs. The public was forced to buy assets at par that were worth a fraction of that.

You got caught red-handed lying so you changed your tune like any criminal under interrogation.

Strac5
Guest
You conveniently ignore that as part of the TARP bailout, there were severe executive compensation restrictions. The government had to strong-arm the bankers to take the money, and that is just a fact whether you want to admit it or not. It was big news at the time. http://archive.fortune.com/2009/06/19/news/economy/trouble_with_tarp_bailout.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009062107 Or if you want a less verifiable version of events: http://dailybail.com/home/kanjorski-reveals-paulsons-closed-door-tarp-threats.html The banks didn’t need or want a bailout, period. The government caused the financial crisis, and without government interference, there would have been no financial crisis. Blaming private entities for the crisis because they “issued debt” is like blaming airlines… Read more »
Hipster Racist
Guest
Notice again he’s trying to shift the conversation from Maiden Lane and the derivative fraud to TARP. TARP was literally the distraction. When asked why they picked the specific number, they said “well it had to be big enough to be credible. Then while everyone was paying attention to TARP, they transferred billions – maybe even trillions depending on how you count it – from the taxpayers and users of the dollars to Wall Street. Then they “paid back” TARP and said, “hey look they paid back the bailouts so it’s ok!” Clearly Strac5 here is one of the beneficiaries… Read more »
Strac5
Guest

The average person cared far more about TARP than the other Fed operations because TARP directly transferred wealth from taxpayer to bank. The other operations were part of the Fed mandate, which is a known quantity, and did not involve transfer of money from the taxpayers to the banks.

You are off into paranoia territory when you accuse random strangers of being in the pockets of banks. This is cuckoo.

Catiline_Conspirator
Guest

“North Carolina could have become the new Wall Street – but the market
Republicans pretend to believe in wasn’t allowed to “work.”

What do you mean by this Hipster? Please fill me in.

Hipster Racist
Guest
@Catiline_Conspirator Charlotte, North Carolina is the second biggest financial capital outside of New York City – it took over from San Francisco when NC’s Nationsbank bought Bank of America in the 1990s. When the 25 years of derivative fraud based in New York City blew up, North Carolina finance could have bought all of Wall Street for pennies on the dollar – it would have made NYC poor – and North Carolina rich. But of course that didn’t happen, because the Republicans – and the incoming Obama administration – forced the taxpayers to bail out the criminal ring based in… Read more »
LoggerheadShrike
Guest

The problem with conservatives, in America at least, is that they conflate class and race and have difficulty distinguishing between the two. It’s as if upper middle class means White, and vice-versa, to these people. This neoliberalism stuff. It smells flimsy and made-up and newish, it doesn’t seem to be authentic or have a real heritage … I think it probably does not exist if you go back before television.

Bob
Guest

Trumps been there a SHORT TIME and enemies on all sides and even in his own family … give it time Hipster – ;O)

Hipster Racist
Guest
@Bob It would be amazing if Trump would lend his star power to some new candidates in traditionally Democratic or swing districts. This would avoid taking on the anti-Trump GOP establishment directly and it would play to Trump’s strength, which is bringing in voters that are not part of the GOP core. It would help Trump personally by bringing in a new faction of Republicans with no loyalty to the party but instead in debt to Trump personally. It would also be such a “Trump” thing to do, Trump and his new candidates could tag-team the social media, and because… Read more »
Bob
Guest

That is all good – that also takes a lot of political capital – which he has zero left going day to day … this will be a slow war of 8 years … hold on ;O)

Dave Overman
Guest

Bob you must be over 35. Young ones tend to be rather impatient and pessimistic and view events as never-ending patterns of defeat. The same ecstacy that was expressed when Trump was victorious is likely to turn into vitriolic resentment of epic levels IF he turns out to be a failure in the oval office, esp with regards to policy achievement.

Bob
Guest
Yes Dave, I am 47. been in more Rightwing groups than flys on shit… Ran to be mayor in my town, been on the staff of several Fed Rep runs and two State staff for two Pres runs… I understand that money runs the show, that the creditor calls the shots, that the US is working in its 3rd bankruptcy, that the national banking act of 33′ ended the real gov’t and made a defaulted debtor to the City of London – So ya its going to take some time, millions of gals of blood and tons of lead in… Read more »
Dave Overman
Guest

“an actual political lobby that hires lawyers and lobbyists and proposes legislation.”

Somebody with a clue

Brett Stevens
Guest

There’s some evidence that the Tea Party was not a working class movement at all:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html

swampwiz0
Guest

Well said. I have been forced to vote for the party of white-dilution because of the horrid policies supported by the Republican Party. It’s time for a 3rd party that will work with Democrats on Welfare State issues, but will stand athwart history yelling stop when it comes to immigration and the support of the Zionist imperialism.

Marshall Lentini
Guest

Stop drinking, man.