Perspective

The Alt Right and Secular Humanism

I recently had a discussion with David McAfee, a well-known writer and publisher in the atheist community.  You can read the whole thing, along with his comments, here and here.


McAfee: Are you religious? Do you support the Separation of Church and State?

Spencer: I’m an atheist.

The “separation of church and state” is an utter illusion. The state and religion are deeply connected.

McAfee: So, despite your lack of religion, you do think religion and government should be connected. Is that right? Do you think a secular government would fail?

Spencer: A truly secular government could never exist. Sovereignty is a magical thing. For a political order to function–for it to accomplish its tasks, including war-making–the population must *believe* in it.


Addendum: I was a bit laconic with my comments on the separation of church and state. My point is this: The “separation” is a post-Enlightenment ideal that masks a great deal. The Christianity that defined Europe arose, not so much with the martyrs and Jesus, as with the Roman state. Religion is fundamentally about community, people, and the state, and I can only view with deep skepticism the Protestant ideal that it is about individual choice.


Spencer: The Paris peace conference of 1919 was an example of peaceful ethnic cleansing.

McAfee: Would you support something like that, a peaceful ethnic cleansing like that of Paris 1919, taking place in the United States?

Spencer: I would support peaceful ethnic redistribution. Yes. Encouraging recent immigrants to return to their true homes, etc.

McAfee: I saw a report that said Neo-Nazis are planning an armed march against Jews in your hometown. Do you condone this type of event?

Spencer: The “march” is a troll. I stated publicly, multiple times, that I wanted the whole episode to end. That said, I don’t denounce free expression.

McAfee: I haven’t seen you being violent or planning violence, but I have seen people do harm to you. Are you a pacifist? What do you have to say about this topic?

Spencer: I’m not a true pacifist, in the sense that I do not believe that violence is *never* justified. Obviously, violence as self-defense is in inherently legitimate. But we need to go deeper than that, beyond liberal logic.

McAfee: What do you mean by “go deeper than that”?

Spencer: The state is fundamentally about violence, it’s about who or what can engage in violence legitimately. In the shadow of a sovereign state, we can use liberal logic (e.g., “self-defense is justified,” etc.). But we shouldn’t forget that we have fundamentally given to the state warmaking power.

McAfee: If you could find common ground, would you be willing to work with those who disagree with you on other issues? Would you work with secular activists to combat radical Islam, for instance?

Spencer: Of course, I’d be willing to work with people.

McAfee: Have you ever thought about running for President? Do you see that in your future?

Spencer: I have seriously thought about running for office. To some degree, it would be an “educational campaign” (similar to Ron Paul’s 2008 effort), but I would only do it to win it.  But there are other ways of influencing people than actually running. That said…I think I’d be a hell of a lot better at it that the vast majority of Republicans.

McAfee: Did you coin the term “Alt-right”?

Spencer: Yes, I first started using “Alternative Right” in the summer of 2008. At the time, it was a much broader tent, referring to lots of different versions of the Right that opposed George W. Bush and the “conservative movement.”

McAfee: Is there a difference between the “Alt-Right” and normal everyday Republicans who supported Donald Trump? Do you think people lump you all together?

Spencer: Of course, there is a YUGE difference. The Alt Right is an intellectual vanguard, and quite young. The vast majority of Trump supporters are Americans, mostly older Americans, who are experiencing serious angst regarding their future.

McAfee: Do you think Donald Trump personally sympathizes with your views?

Spencer: An intriguing question. When he first ran, I doubt he had ever heard of me or seriously thought through idea related to the Alt Right. He’s now definitely heard of me and Alt Right ideas.

McAfee: He has definitely heard of the movement. A lot of people think he might personally have similar views, even if he’s not open about them. Do you see anything like that in him?

Spencer: I’m sure it’s a very mixed bag. On one level, he probably thinks, “Why won’t these crazy kids shut up!? They’re making me look bad!” On another level, I imagine he grasps where we are coming from. He might *sympathize*, without really being one of us. Remember the generational aspect of Trump is very important. People of his age are looking back towards an older America. Alt Right people have grown up in postmodern America. We don’t want to “go back.” We want to go forward.

McAfee: Do you see Steve Bannon as a line of influence for your movement within the Trump administration?

Spencer: Bannon is a very similar person to Trump. He might sympathize, but he’s not really one of us.

McAfee: Is there anything else you’d like to add? Anything you think it’s important “the other side” understands?

Spencer: Trump wants “civic nationalism”; Bannon wants “economic” nationalism.  It’s important to look at the historical trajectory in which these political forces arose. “Civic nationalism” (and “Social Contracts”) came about in a major disruption, when older, organic regimes and social orders were brought into question. Today, the “civic nationalism” of mid-century America no longer works; it no longer works for peoples and races who are dramatically different from one another and don’t agree on much of anything outside of shopping and watching NFL football. This is one reason for the rise of a postmodern, multicultural ideal. It’s a replacement ideology for civic nationalism. Trump might be the last gasp of mid-century Americanism.  He’s trying to paper over a major social disruption with full-throated Americanism. It’s fascinating. And I sympathize with Trumpists, without really being one of them.

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102 Comments on "The Alt Right and Secular Humanism"

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Albionic American
Guest
I think Spencer has gotten on the right track about how the West lost its way as a result of the Enlightenment. We can trace the roots of so-called Cultural Marxism and the social-justice ideology to a handful of men in mid 18th Century France, led my the Baron d’Holbach and Denis Diderot, who went out of their way to create a corrosive culture of critique to destroy their given civilization and replace it with another one based on their idea of “reason.” Refer to (((Jonathan Israel’s))) book on the Radical Enlightenment, if you want to take on that much… Read more »
Will Windsor
Guest

Atheism is just as much a religious belief as Christianity.

The purely rational position is agnosticism. I’m not sure why people prefer the religious belief of atheism

TransPride
Guest

No it’s not you imbecile. It is specifically the LACK of belief.

Albionic American
Guest

Atheism has nothing to do with these woo-woo beliefs about race, feminism and broken sexuality any way. A logically parsimonious atheist could accept the tragedy of the human condition straight: Gods don’t exist, and “social progress” can’t happen because man has an enduring nature that doesn’t change mysteriously in The Current Year.

In other words, feminism didn’t work a thousand years ago; it doesn’t work now; and it won’t work a thousand years hence, unless you invoke some transhumanist fantasy which really changes man’s nature to make feminism practical.

vainpill
Guest

Native European Religions need to be the basis for this movement. Nothing else makes sense. How can alt right Christians read from the old testament? How can they follow a religion founded by Jews? I get the cultural Christian thing. I don’t believe in fairy tales, but respect what Christianity has done for our civilization. But, like I said, you can’t have a middle eastern religion represent Europeans.

Katachthonios
Guest

American Christians are the best friend Israel ever had. Now they will make Israel ‘Great Again’ by shifting the embassy to Jerusalem whilst dithering around trying to defeat Mossad funded terrorism. All America’s political woes spring from its effeminate servile religion.

Albionic American
Guest

Apparently Jews play a role in propagandizing American churches with this “end times” bullshit as well, including the nonsense about the rapture.

Ironically Christians who believe in the rapture have it sort of right: Christians have started to disappear, just not in the ridiculous way shown in, say, Tim LaHaye’s novels and Jack Chick’s tracts.

Katachthonios
Guest

Naturally, after all the Jews wrote the Old Testament. Yaweh is the god of both religions, one cannot reject Judaism without first rejecting its god. The only problem is that ‘disappearance’ is not hasty enough.

DenVilda
Guest

This interview wasn’t very interesting. So I guess Spencer identified as an atheist to appeal to the secular community; I suppose that makes more sense that acknowledging that he’s a Zoroastrian Magi.

Strac5
Guest
Christianity served its purposes. It kept the Roman Empire together longer than it otherwise would have been. When Rome fell, Christianity inspired and motivated key tribal and national leaders through the example of Rome’s legendary power and the Church’s physical glory. Later, it helped build up the critical trade networks that led to Europe’s rise. Unfortunately, Christianity is inherently cucked. Consider a fundamental example: War and killing. Though superb at killing, Christians don’t kill very many when the opponent is fundamentally weak. They take it on the cheek. Observe how the English wouldn’t slaughter Indians when they dropped to their… Read more »
A E
Guest

So you’re philosophical stance is: be a sociopath? Or I guess you’re saying return to tribalism

kaarekazai
Guest

The Iliad was written half a millenia before the filosofers and christianity took a lot of ideas from the filosofers. And in the Iliad itselfe Akilles and the Greeks are not the one dimentional heroes. The killing spree of Akilles and he’s unwillingnes to give mercy was not an ideal even at the time of Homer. But I partly agree that because of Christianity we have a soft spot for victimhood. And it depends on the context if that is a good thing or a liability.

Strac5
Guest
Interesting observations, but a) there is no such thing as Homer, b) we don’t have a robust evidentiary record of Greek attitudes about killing and war prior to The Iliad being laid down in writing because Linear B was the previous script, and c) Achilles wasn’t really the hero of The Iliad. The original, and core, of The Iliad was Books II through V. Diomedes was the hero of the core Iliad (and was, incidentally, the world’s first superhero in literature). Diomedes is portrayed as radically militaristic in his views and flatly unmerciful in his actions. The core Iliad got… Read more »
kaarekazai
Guest
I think you have a good point about The Vest being limited by its own moral code and the soft spot for weakness. By the time of the philosophers we know they valued the golden rule. But I think Christianity made us vulnerable of “cults of victimhood” and to day it limits our military strategies. We can see it in the response to the flood of migrants to Europe. But also the case of Israel is a classic case of inability to deal with a weak opponent. What ever your view on Israel and the palestinians is. And even though… Read more »
Augustine Esterhammer-Fic
Guest
Augustine Esterhammer-Fic

I find so much of the alt-right conversations masturbatory and as theoretical as old live-in-a-tiny-commune marxism. Most white nationalists remind me of my less aware self, before I actually knew or cared about anyone who wasn’t white. I eventually grew up. My non-white friends have been there for me while many of my white friends search for ways to see themselves as victims…

Celestial Time
Guest

So you’re saying you came here for the masturbation?

Augustine Esterhammer-Fic
Guest
Augustine Esterhammer-Fic

That’s what the internet is for isn’t it?

But no, I’m actually just reading points of view and utilizing the comments section to give my own reactions.

asmoday20
Guest

I’m not asking to have faith in any movement but your possibly atypical experience with white or non-white friends however don’t dismiss the work of those moving toward a safer culture for my white children which, this culture is increasingly not.

The rhetoric does occasionally get a little culty-cringey admittedly.

Augustine Esterhammer-Fic
Guest
Augustine Esterhammer-Fic

We all have our anecdotes. If I found any of his arguments very convincing, I’d research further, but he just sounds like the grandma who fears all my black friends.

“…a safer culture for my white children which, this culture is increasingly not.”
Some data on that? Other than wanting spaces “safe” from salon articles?

adopt from your local shelter
Guest
adopt from your local shelter

“Some data on that? Other than wanting spaces “safe” from salon articles?”

Just look up FBI crime statistics by race you lazy hipster fag.

Augustine Esterhammer-Fic
Guest
Augustine Esterhammer-Fic

Yeah they’re correlated. So are crime rates and economic status. Black America has always trailed far behind America if you sorted the GDP per capita, we didn’t exactly them freedom and a nice picket fenced-home each.

adopt from your local shelter
Guest
adopt from your local shelter

Economic status is correlated with race because IQ is correlated with race. American Asians have high economic status because they have high average IQs. Likewise, Blacks have low average economic status because they have low average IQs. That’s why in Africa today, black areas that were not colonized by Whites are filled with mudhuts, cannibalism, genocide, and sucking cow’s assholes.

A E
Guest
You’re getting the correlation backwards. I recommend Why Nations Fail. It’s a little surface level but does a great job of presenting the interplay of institutions and economics in an area’s prosperity. The West just hit on better institutions around the time of enlightenment, then again during the industrial revolution. Then they jumped ahead and often set other institutions back. Nothing inherently smart about being white; do you know any black people well? I mean, have you ever been the only white guy at an event? It was very formative for my views to talk to kind, open minded, intelligent… Read more »
adopt from your local shelter
Guest
adopt from your local shelter

You’re a fucking idiot.

A E
Guest

I’m pretty much the easiest person you’ll talk to with an opposing view. If that’s all you’ve got, anyone you try to convince in the future will just assume your philosophy is substanceless.

adopt from your local shelter
Guest
adopt from your local shelter

Then they’re idiots too.

A E
Guest

Ah I see. But you see the truth. You see through the lies, right?

adopt from your local shelter
Guest
adopt from your local shelter
You believe environment creates IQ, when the fact is, IQ creates environment. The West just hit on better institutions around the time of enlightenment, then again during the industrial revolution. Then they jumped ahead and often set other cultures’ institutions back. Nothing inherently smart about being white; So you believe the enlightenment and industrial revolution just happened, and Whites just so happen to be in Europe and America at the time of this magical happening, which had nothing to do with the intelligence of all the White people creating the steam engines, power plants, automobiles, etc… That is a really… Read more »
A E
Guest
It’s more complicated. England (after events like the Glorious Revolution which established a Parliament) had a governing system that allowed competition and innovation. That’s why the industrial revolution was fostered there. Compare that to the serf system of Russia at the time, where instead of incentivizing innovation, the tzar actually prevented the building of railroads because they might allow a middle class to erode his power. So it’s false to look at the rise of industry as a European event: plenty of Europe was left out. Also, if race has to do with intelligence, why would Russia be poor when… Read more »
adopt from your local shelter
Guest
adopt from your local shelter

No, it’s actually not that complicated. Race denial has its roots in the fraudulent pseudoscience of Franz Boas and Steven J Gould. They’re both confirmed frauds now. comment image

A E
Guest

But you still didn’t give any response to my actual arguments buddy

A E
Guest

Everything I’ve referenced in the last post is from Daron Acemoglu. He’s in the top 20 most-cited economists. Totally unrelated to whatever “cranium study” your post digs up

jsigur
Guest

right, the NWO is DEFEATED THROUGH AWARENESS, NOT RACE OBSESSION. oBSESS ON YOUR RACE WHEN IT’S DEFEATED IF YOU HAVE TO

jsigur
Guest

” Would you work with secular activists to combat radical Islam, for instance?” I wish Spencer would place radical Islam where it should be, a jewish psyop against christians. I can’t see where letting Jewish definitions of reality stand is a win for us

Adam Blade
Guest

I was actually hoping this article would be more about the place of religion or irreligion in the alt-right, rather than a generic interview about the alt-right with two questions about religion

Charles Martel
Guest

Secular Humanists are, generally speaking, smart White People. Of course we should be joining in common cause where possible. We’re going to draw a lot more of them to our side than they are going to draw our people to their side.

Phash McQueen
Guest

> “Secular Humanists”
> “smart White People”

Pick one.

Charles Martel
Guest

Smart people can be deluded. The smartest can even entertain the notion that they are deluded themselves.

Phash McQueen
Guest
“Smart people can be deluded.” You’re correct. — I was being cheeky. In fact, the case has been made that higher intelligence makes you more susceptible to long-term brainwashing. It takes a high IQ, and a longer time-horizon, to rationalize away things that are happening right in front of your eyes based on previous, esoteric abstractions designed to blunt your natural reactions and emotions. An unintelligent person can be tricked and lied to. But he snaps out of it as soon as he sees something that plainly contradicts his previous indoctrination. An unintelligent person has to be lied to, constantly,… Read more »
A E
Guest

Thank god phash mcqueen can see through the lies

Je Suis Charles Martel
Guest
Je Suis Charles Martel

Catholicism is Western Culture.

TransPride
Guest

No, it’s a cancer that plagues our society.

Charles Martel
Guest

Do you not recognize the Ancient Greek contribution to Western Culture?

Je Suis Charles Martel
Guest
Je Suis Charles Martel

Nothing but love for the Ancient Greek, doppleganger bros.

Libertaryan
Guest

Let’s make race our religion, and religion our race.., then we will make progress.

Zazz
Guest

“he probably thinks, Why won’t these crazy kids shut up!? They’re making me look bad!”. Trump had to have laughed at the Trump Pepe’s, who didn’t? his boys had fun with them.

A hymn to Hermes
Guest

“Cultural Christian” basically means atheist.

Zazz
Guest
BookWurm
Guest

Hey Richard. Everyone saw you cry on TV.
The bloc has it’s eye on you.

Space Turtle
Guest

What are you even doing here? Are you obsessed with Spencer? I bet he turns you on.

BookWurm
Guest

One of the worst attempts at trolling. Gay insults? Really? Haha, infantile.

Space Turtle
Guest

Look! He’s STILL here! And what – you have something against gay people? I thought you leftists worship faggots

BookWurm
Guest

And I thought you Nazi’s wouldn’t use a device invented by a gay man. Then again, the alternative is meeting out in public, which ruins your little internet safe zone, so I can understand the concession.

jsigur
Guest

EZ to say when “Big Brother” is standing behind you Book Wum- Jew troll

Captain John Charity Spring MA
Guest
Captain John Charity Spring MA

Not too long ago I was a conventional social democrat. Then I saw through the bullshit.

Space Turtle
Guest

Says the commie faggot sitting behind a keyboard and hanging out on an alt-right website with people he hates. Guess you just have nothing better to do, huh?

asmoday20
Guest

It’s still several hours until he can go out for his next methadone fix.

Murikanner
Guest

You do get around comrade faggot.

Celestial Time
Guest

I’m not a Nazi. I was a fairly hardcore anarchist at one point. But then I grew up. Trust me when I tell you it’s not the “Nazis” you need to worry about.

jsigur
Guest

notice like a girl he keeps his posts private

jsigur
Guest

Yes it is, he’s a Jew and we have their number

Hipster Racist
Guest

Leftist anti-whites have been writing their S&M sexual fantasies about Spencer and Trump for a while now.

It’s odd, and disturbing, but also very amusing.

“50 Shades of Whitey.”

Hipster Racist
Guest

https://disqus.com/by/BookWurm/

BookWurm is justifying communism and genocide on the Zionist website FrontPageMag.

Apparently, BookWurm hates European people and Palestinians and supports genocide against them.

Not really a surprise.

jsigur
Guest

makes him a Jew, right?

Hipster Racist
Guest

He’s promoting a Jewish ideology on a Jewish website while cheering for a Jewish organization, antifa, here.

Clearly, he’s Presbyterian.

jsigur
Guest

which is Jewish

Hipster Racist
Guest

Click on his handle, he was posting on a Jewish website, promoting a Jewish ideology, and here was cheering on anti-fa, a Jewish terrorist organization.

Clearly the behavior of a Methodist.

Captain John Charity Spring MA
Guest
Captain John Charity Spring MA

The Romans were fucking horrid. When the Spartacus revolt started up much of the organizational struggle Spartacus faced was getting the Gauls, Germans and Greek gladiators to march together. The German slaves refused to March with Spartacus (either from a racial superiority complex or direction of home and the Romans rapidly massacred these Bruders) these were not Slave revolts imho, much more about national reassertions against a Slave state. It retarded Europe for a millennia.

slipperypeople
Guest

Secular humanists purport to abhor dogma, yet they are some of the most dogmatically liberal people you will ever meet.

Hipster Racist
Guest

Christians can be pro-White or anti-White.

Atheists can be pro-White or anti-White.

Secular humanists can be pro-White or anti-White.

Let’s all be pro-White together.

Murikanner
Guest

Just don’t be a pussy.

Captain John Charity Spring MA
Guest
Captain John Charity Spring MA

The post ww2 consensus is weezing into the grave.

Fash_McQueen
Guest

Spencer: “I’m an (((atheist))).”

Drago Lord
Guest

Christianity is a cult of pacifist self-destruction, and that core is not going anywhere anytime soon

The crusaders that destroyed Constantinople are not the example you wanna follow

jsigur
Guest

they don’t call it a religion of Abraham ofr nothing. Ever wonder why it’s Jews that do usury?

Phash McQueen
Guest

“Christianity is a cult of pacifist self-destruction”

Of the 109 expulsions of the Jews, 107 of those expulsions were from White, Christian Nations.

Only after chipping away at Christianity in the 20th Century did the Jews manage to get a foothold in our White Nations.

The primary goal of the Jews, for 2000 years, has been to destroy Christianity because it has served as a bulwark against the Jewish attacks and subversion of White Nations.

Don’t pretend to be Red-Pilled if you don’t yet understand this.

The “New Atheist” movement was begun by, and is pushed by, Jews.

And you’re helping them.

Good goy.

jsigur
Guest

go back to Rome, Rome fell because of Jewish Christianity. That said, Catholic paganism was a problem for Jews in the end so they invented Protestantism. That then enabled the Jewish revolutions

Andrew Brill
Guest

See Luther, idiot. Literally wrote a book against Jews.

jsigur
Guest
haha, he wrote a book about them after he was bought and used by them. The pope he was protesting against was a medici, a likely secret Jew or at minimum acting like one. As with most things, the Protestant Reformation was an orchestrated event. Jews , through the Loyola Jesuits formed the counter reformation to fight the secret Jew protestant preachers and their duped audience. 1/3 Germans were killed. The English revolution used the psychology of the Protestant Reformation to behead it’s king. The English Revolution was the mother of all the others. Is Luthors last name “Idiot?” One… Read more »
Captain John Charity Spring MA
Guest
Captain John Charity Spring MA

My opinion is that Christ was a literary construct designed by Greek tragedy writers intended to troll Jews.

Have a read quickly through Matthew he strikes a similar profile to Oedipus, Heracles Prometheus and he’s mostly joking at the expense of the Heebs.

jsigur
Guest

No, Jews were already the perceived enemy of Rome so Christianity became the enemy within the gates they didn’t know about

Strac5
Guest

Actually by Josephus, under the auspices of Emperor Titus Flavius, to pacify the Jews. Josephus was a turncoat. See ‘Caesar’s Messiah.”

jsigur
Guest

written by a Jew and we know they don’t distort history to serve themselves

Phash McQueen
Guest

“My opinion is that Christ was a literary construct designed by Greek tragedy writers”

Your opinion has no bearing on actual history.

Both Christian, and non-Christian, historians agree that Jesus Christ existed,

Even the anti-Christ Jews, who would love to make people believe that Jesus never existed, gave up on that line of attack, many decades ago.

The historical, archaeological, and documentary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ is just too overwhelming for anyone claiming that Jesus was a “literary construct” to be taken seriously.

jsigur
Guest

they don’t care if you believe in Jesus since Christianity is a slave religion

Captain John Charity Spring MA
Guest
Captain John Charity Spring MA

I didn’t say he did not exist. The point I’m making isn’t mutually exclusive, he’s a very antisemitic character.

jsigur
Guest

Jesus was a Jew who called out the creators of the talmuid who make shit up as they go along

Strac5
Guest

Nope. He is fiction. There is not a single piece of contemporary evidence for his existence.

jsigur
Guest

yes, no historical proof of Jesus to justify idol worship of him

Captain John Charity Spring MA
Guest
Captain John Charity Spring MA

I didn’t claim he didn’t exist. Just that the text creates a character that is profoundly Anti-Jew.

jsigur
Guest

Jews like messiahs that will whip some goy ass

Phash McQueen
Guest

Hahahahahaha!

You’re a (((brainwashed))) moron.

And a shabbos-cuck.

jsigur
Guest

I love Jew name calling. It’s good to parrot Jew technique

sturmsoldat
Guest

Being an atheist is just as illogical as being a full christian fundamentalist. There is just no way to prove or unprove. You’re going to tell me in all the dimensions and in all the universe its absolutely impossible to have a “God” like being? Its statistically unlikely. The Catholic Church advocates just war theory. Saint Augustine is a good reference for that.

TransPride
Guest

Except you don’t have to disprove something that isn’t there in the first place,so it is very different.

kaarekazai
Guest

Haha. God is probably a Boltzman Brain somewhere in the multiverse. But probably also evaporates only seconds after forming and says: “Oh no! Not again!” ;-p

jsigur
Guest

Even history that you look up could have been edited by some nefarious power structure. HGard to know anything for sure

Celestial Time
Guest

A rigid belief system built on the probability—minus any provability—of something being true is about as illogical as you can get.

James Meyer
Guest

The rigid belief system was built by people throughout history. Look religion is a spectacular system of control. Christianity did a great job of uniting all of Europe on more than one occasion. I’m suggesting you use it to push your agenda rather than alienating yourself from the same people who would be willing to push against these liberal assholes.

jsigur
Guest

It did a great job of killing the Roman empire and empowering Islam. Where do you think communism comes from. Aethesitic Jews who preach the same shit

boob dylan
Guest

Is this a movement or a personality cult? Is this a website about white identity politics or about RBS? This is in danger of becoming a Thernovich-style vanity project. Navel gazing about not believing in God is not nearly as important as getting more blacks and mestizos to get vasectomies and abortions.

Zazz
Guest

RBS fan club? Mags, buttons, masks, fitness program, let’s get a list going. Give him a few months, he’ll reinvent himself.

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